How to check timing chain stretch. A timing chain runs inside the engine, as it needs to be lubricated by the engine oil. The most common cause of timing chain stretch is lack of maintenance and regular oil changes. In your other thread you say the timing is within 1 degree so that would indicate the chain has almost no wear. . which they say is what causes most chain failures. Push the slack chain inward and measure the chain deflection at the furthest point between the edge of the Timing chain stretch is a very common problem among VW and Audi 2. 6L engine tend to stretch, resulting in a lot of replacements under a special GM guarantee. Here is a short list of some of the possible mechanical causes of the timing moving around, in no particular order. If you have have a warning message that reads ENGINE SERVICE REQUIRED you will also need to check your timing chain. The duplex camshaft timing chain is built for a 300,000 km service life. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between Timing chain stretch is a very common problem among VW and Audi 2. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between On all engines, including modern EFI engines where the PCM/ECU controls spark timing, the distributor's rotor movement determines the amount of timing chain and sprocket or timing gear wear. 2. Mine is showing. You may also notice that the engine is running poorly and when you try to accelerate, you lack power. Re: check timing chain stretch? « Reply #1 on: November 11, 2006, 18:38:01 ». Elongation due to wear is a normal phenomena during drive operation. The number of replacements has me thinking that my CTS could Tailwheel said: I just changed my timing chain. 9 motor. The tensioner is applied with oil pressure, so it’ll never have full tension on it with the engine off. 22-cm) timing chain becomes a 43. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles unless there is a specific problem. Cost is around $3-400. Remember, the timing chain, water pump, cam phasers, tensioner and chain guides setup in the naturally aspirated engine shown in the video is identical to that in the 2010 3. Rough idling. I always measured timing chain play by turning the engine over by hand until the pistons start to move, then turning it the opposite direction, and counting the degrees until the pistons move again. BE CAREFUL AS TWO OF THE 10MM BOLTS ARE INSIDE AND IF YOU DROP THEM INSIDE THE ENGINE YOU WILL HAVE TO STRIP IT DOWN TO GET THEM. Rough Running. muddyford911. This means that the chain skips a gear either on the camshaft or on the crankshaft. The fleet engines I serviced and rebuilt at that time included Chevrolet, GMC, Dodge (slant six), Ford and I-H inline six-cylinder OHV types. -> If a DTC sets, inspect for the following; - The correct installation of the camshaft sensors. It had around 0. (Gauge should be in line, directly below any outside link plate. note how far you turned the crank pulley. Long story short - after days of stumping Nissan techs, the dealer opened a tech line case an preceded to diagnose with corporate Nissan expert. I do not know if the timing chain was changed on the car, and have no way of finding out. This articulation results in wear on the pins and bushings. The Ford spec says to measure the chain deflection on the slack side (left side as you face the front of the engine). that is yet another thing that leads me to believe the timing chain is stretched. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between The best way to check for chain stretch is to pull the front cover and inspect how far the plunger has moved out of the tensioner body. Timing chain stretch is a very common problem among VW and Audi 2. ) If the gauge step fits through the checkpoint, the chain is worn out and needs to be replaced. 1-inch (109. i have heard that a crf450 cam The most common cause of timing chain stretch is lack of maintenance and regular oil changes. In addition to oil change neglect and improper oil usage, using the wrong or low quality oil filter can also cause accelerated timing chain wear. Check gauge for fit between any two roller links. engine overheating: although rare, if the Generally speaking if the rivet is less than 1/16" past the 12" ruler mark your chain is still okay. After a while, the timing chain stretches. - An incorrectly installed timing chain. Sounds about normal tho. Timing chain stretch is not actually the ‘stretching’ of the chain, it’s an elongation of the timing chain caused by wear in the chains components. Obviously, any timing chain will gradually stretch/wear over time. Moving the chain one tooth on the timing gear chages the timing 18deg. Camshaft adaptation exhaust bank 1, phase position = 12. and i have the code P00016, car has 40,000 miles. Pull the spark plugs, hand crank the engine over with a finger covering the spark plug hole for #1, and wait until it starts up on the compression stroke. If driving an older vehicle, or one with close to 100,000 miles, it is recommended to look for symptoms of the timing chain going bad or failing. A timing belt typically needs to be replaced between 40,000 and 100,000 miles depending on the vehicle. As far as a gear drive set up over a good double roller timing chain, stick with the timing chain. If you notice your engine running Timing Chains are known to stretch on this engine, how does one use VCDS to check Timing Chain stretch. Kent will go over the procedure in this video of checking the engine timing on a 1976 Mercedes 240D. It is imperative that you know the status of your timing chain, When the Timing chain stretch is a very common problem among VW and Audi 2. The best way to check for chain stretch is to pull the front cover and inspect how far the plunger has moved out of the tensioner body. When the timing chain stretches, jumps teeth, or completely fails, it causes the valves to open and close at the wrong times. D. Directly from the TM 9-2320-289-34 Intermediate Support, 3-33: 1. if it rotated an inch then you're timing chain needs Knocking or rattling noises from engine. I checked the timing chain for stretch by pulling the distributor cap and watching how many degrees the crank would rotate before the rotor would move. Degrees of backlash is another way to check timing chain stretch. My understanding is that the timing chains on the 3. ) If you are trying to diagnose timing chain stretch, it might be impossible to access the timing mark without major disassembly. Worn out oil can no longer lubricate the chain and will cause the rollers and links to wear against each other. Remove the plug in the timing cover and check the tensioner. Read the amount of stretch on the timing tab. I was finally able to measure my OM642 timing chain stretch with 152K miles. All common rail YD25 engines from 2005 have duplex (double row) camshaft timing chains. The new Cloyes chain has around 0. Idle the engine at normal operating temp for 10 minutes. At this stage the cassette should be okay. It is imperative that you know the status of your timing chain, When the No no i did not replace the chain, i use a channel in OBD11 that tell you the stretch of chain in degrees after chain replacement, in this case at 0km . 0t, come by and have us check your chain to prevent major engine failure. It’s seemingly a piece of straightforward equipment and is sort of the same as the chain in your bicycle. DTC should not be set. If you jump to 24 minutes in, you can see the water pump failure, the bearing is wobbling and coolant is draining into the oil pan. The car has been practically trouble free. Between 1/16" and 1/8" past the ruler mark it is time to replace your chain. 00" slack, the max or just beyond the max allowable limit with only 50,000 miles. The result will the give you the amount of degrees between the two marks. With the rocker cover off, undo and remove the upper side cover. Replacement of the timing chain is not a simple job, and a bit more involved than changing You may never get the engine to run right with excessive timing chain stretch and you risk the chance of having the chain break and destroying the engine. 8265 inches as caliper varied to that. If the chain just jumps a little then you will likely just notice rough idling, poor performance, misfires, etc. Bushing. A chain that isn't loose will have about three to five degrees of reverse motion before the distributor begins 20 February 2018. i did remove the tensioner before removing the camshaft. So it's borderline to stretched. - A timing chain tensioner condition. Identify chain pitch size. 3 degrees. The pins (#3) are the part of a chain that are most prone to damage. Chain tensioner or guide problems: The chain relies on guides and tensioners to stay in place and work properly. As the chain runs around the gears of the camshafts and crankshaft, the movement between the rollers and links causes wear and elongation. Rock the balancer back and forth with a breaker bar on the balance bolt and watch the timing mark. Not sure of the specs for the 5. poor engine performance: a stretched timing chain will affect valve timing. The visible splines are all of the splines that are located to the right of the chain tensioner housing. - Excessive play in the timing chain. Locate the corresponding step on the gauge. If your engine backfires, it could be due to a loose timing chain. You may never get the engine to run right with excessive timing chain stretch and you risk the chance of having the chain break and destroying the engine. So I 2. this can cause a number of engine performance problems, such as a misfire, rough running and a lack of power. How do you measure chain stretch? If you want to check chain wear, you can use a ruler to measure it. If you are trying to diagnose timing chain stretch, it might be impossible to access the timing mark without major disassembly. Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1, phase position = -2. 82mm max stretch allowed. (Do this with chain in tension. A roller chain is a series of connected journal bearings that articulate as they enter and leave the sprockets. This guide provides instructions on how to check the Mercedes-Benz timing chain for wear and stretch without tearing apart the engine. mark the crank pulley and turn the pulley in one direction for about a quarter turn. Reply Like. Any reading more than 4° to 5° is considered excessive and you need to schedule time to install a new timing chain and gear set. 3. I have a 2009 CTS with 160,000 km. 474-cm) or larger timing chain. 4. then turn the pulley the opposite direction and note when the rotor in the distributor just starts to move. with the tensioner arm fully extended, i can insert the tensioner and theres only about a 1/16 of an inch of space between the tensioner and cylinder. I rotated the engine until these 2 marks line up with the mark on the camshaft mount. This is how to check: 1. i have heard that a crf450 cam Apr 24, 2012. Engine no start. Contaminated and unserviceable oil loses its ability to To check the valve/crank timing just pull the valve cover and observe the valves for the #1 cylinder. To be even more precise, these pins are not elongating, but instead are undergoing one of a few possible effects: They may be bent to a certain degree. Only show this user. except GM made the tensioners from eggshells The timing chain replacement cost is higher than many other auto repair jobs in large part because of how long it takes to put a new timing chain into place. 5 Ecoboost. I read that the mark on the right hand camshaft needs to align when the engine is TDC. The engine’s timing will be out of calibration and you hear the classic misfire sound. Steven Kunkel, a very competent VW mechanic at West Side VW, blew me away with his Re: check timing chain stretch? « Reply #1 on: November 11, 2006, 18:38:01 ». Make sure you are rotating the engine in the same direction that the starter motor turns It seems right up to the limit as I understand the 8 links and 16 pins, the pins must be just inside the measurement to be withing the limit. The most common cause of this phenomenon is actually lack of maintenance and regular oil changes using a quality oil. How do I stop my timing chain from stretching? You should have your vehicle serviced for oil changes every 5000 miles. a lot of people here said that VW Jetta 2. The sound persists. I was having trouble with my beater, a 1987 Olds wagon with a 307 V8. Go into groups 208 and 209 at idle and note the 3rd value. The alternative method requires a lot of disassembly to the right side valve cover to lock cam at #1 TDC, and then measure stretch on the crank pulley not to exceed 11 degrees. Time: Timing chains are not meant to last forever. 5. If there is a problem with these parts of the vehicle, then the timing chain is likely to stop working properly, get damaged, and may break altogether. 6 degrees. I'm looking at buying the OBD11 plug in adaptor, but just want to check if blocks 208 & 209 have been added to the software yet to be able to check timing chain stretch? This will determine whether I get the software or not so need a definitive answer! Thanks in advance. As the timing chain wears (stretches) the valve timing becomes slower (after TDC). 4. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between Discussion Starter · #1 · Feb 7, 2017. If your vehicle loses power, without warning, your timing chain might be loose. The easiest way to check timing is to use a scope to capture the waveforms of the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors. Kind of sounded like a blender full of nuts and bolts, kind of hard to miss. but never saw that in any forum . It doesn’t “stretch” like a rubber band; instead the enlarged clearances between the links and pins create slack, effectively increasing the chain’s diameter. Save. korjaa. take off distributor cap. 2007 Camry LE-beater. Oftentimes, it's going to take a mechanic between 4 and 6 hours to complete a timing chain replacement job from start to finish. YouTube. Tailwheel said: I just changed my timing chain. More than a degree or two of backlash indicates time to replace. If you have some strange performance problems like hesitation, misfires, or perhaps even a check engine light for a cam or crank sensor, you might want to ch Mercedes tool 642 589 03 63 00 it looks like a tensioner with a graduated plunger in the middle that measures chain stretch. As material is worn away from these surfaces the roller chain will gradually elongate (Fig. I am lucky my '83 380SL has the double row timing chain. This is something that you need to get looked at right away. Any further past this point will require chain and cassette replacement. The timing chain replacement cost is higher than many other auto repair jobs in large part because of how long it takes to put a new timing chain into place. to visit my dad. Re: How to check for t-case chain stretch? When my chain stretched, it would occasionally, jump the sprocket (or so it sounded) under a heavy load. I wanted to check it for stretch. A timing chain is made of metal, similar to a bicycle chain. 40" slack. - The correct installation of the crankshaft sensor. We have seen a few cases of timing chain stretch, mostly involving 2008-2010 Evos, since the timing chain was updated for the 2011 models. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between Paul Wright. Issues with the chain are common in higher mileage vehicles. For example, if the rotor tip began to move at 10° after TDC as measured at the timing mark, the chain has 10° of stretch. Pin. Timing chain. 80"-1. engine won’t start: if the timing chain breaks, the engine won’t have compression and won’t start. And yes, chains will stretch over time. 1). I then was wondering if the engine was detonating so I hooked the timing light up and the timing is bouncing all over the place. The best preventive maintenance of timing chain stretch and hop is to do it. In metric, 10 links of a new chain is 25. In your other thread you say the timing is within 1 degree so that would I'm looking for some "easy" ways to check timing chain stretch on my 95 S600 (140,000 miles). This is especially helpful when checking and assembeld engine in the car. If its more than around 7mm out then your chain is stretched. 4 or 5 degrees is fairly normal. Expensive, but at least I didn't blow my engine with the interference valve/cylinder design. 0. When I compared to the new chain hanging down from a straight plane, there was probably a little more length in the old chain, but like 3mm to 5mm at a guess. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between I am lucky my '83 380SL has the double row timing chain. On a separate note, had the generator go out at 120,000 -125,000 miles. Mount dial indicator to front of engine block . Measurements came in at 67-68mm, not bad at all, I wish I knew what Divide the distance between the two marks by the total circumference of the damper. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between All common rail YD25 engines from 2005 have duplex (double row) camshaft timing chains. Going too long between oil changes and using the wrong type or viscosity rated motor oil causes the timing chain pins and plates to wear, resulting in timing chain stretch. good double roller will last longer, but once again, will eventually stretch over time. This is often a sign that your timing Power Loss. A lot of Gen4's built after LS2 went to a cam chain tensioner (yellow thing in this pic),which was a good theory. Also I read the stock rzr tensioner has a hole in the top, and during a rollover it will leak out all the oil and can case your belt to jump since it will not be holding any tension. A Manual tensioner would solve this problem too. Attach the rivet to the zero mark. No no i did not replace the chain, i use a channel in OBD11 that tell you the stretch of chain in degrees after chain replacement, in this case at 0km . 4cm. The timing chain normally needs to be replaced between Long story short - after days of stumping Nissan techs, the dealer opened a tech line case an preceded to diagnose with corporate Nissan expert. Just short of the Mpls airport, the Timing Chain (s) jumped a tooth. However, if I take off the timing cover to Timing Chain. Turn the vibration damper in direction of engine rotation until the chain tensioner piston is extended the maximum distance. The most common symptoms of Mercedes-Benz timing chain wear include poor engine performance, reduced power, the check engine light coming on, and the P0016 and P0017 fault codes. The gear drive set up is noisy and hard to set up. What is an unacceptable amount of chain stretch or play? At what point does changing the chain become critical? 1995 GM S-10 Service Manual says that if the chain has "more than 5/8" of side to side movement", it should be changed. tsi with gen 3 has a problem with chain stretch, so think that MK7 probably has the same problem . Knocking or rattling noises from engine. The black damper isn't supposed to ride on the chain, it's just there to control whip in the chain . In my case, both values is -6 and then the difference is 0. Signs of a Stretched Timing Chain Backfiring. My right hand camshaft sprocket has 2 engraved mark lines. Put a straight edge from the edge of the timing gear to the edge of the crank gear to establish a measuring point. #6. According to a french forum it could be possible to measure the timing chain stretch with VCDS. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Count the visible piston splines. It's a few hundred dollar repair. I had the timing chain issue around 100K miles - last summer. 2/5. They determined that the timing chain was stretched and causing my conditions after an ecu swap, fuel pump, coils, idpm, and plugs. Do not use a timing chain tensioner on your 5. They are under a great deal of If you are trying to diagnose timing chain stretch, it might be impossible to access the timing mark without major disassembly. This goes for the timing chain, too. The crank rotates about 5-6 degrees. Last Summer we headed to Minneapolis and then on to the Black Hills S. Multiply the result by 360, which is the total number of degrees in a circle. They are under a great deal of This goes for the timing chain, too. engine overheating: although rare, if the 3. Also old starts before oil pressure can build up in the tensioner can cause it. 1) excessive cam end play, 2) breaker plate not stable 3) worn bushings in distributor 4) hashed vacuum advance unit 5)worn timing chain 6) worn distributor gear 7) worn cam gear 8) oil pump problems. Just as how a bicycle can’t move without a chain, your car’s engine must get a timing chain replacement should it fail, too. . The fuel pump drive timing chain is simplex (single row) and is failing well before the camshaft timing chain. I used 4. Timing chain replacement can be very expensive. With that cover off, you will be able to see the timing tensioner piston. 2021 Camry TRD. Roller. I suspected timing chain problems. Soon your roughly 43-inch (109. If seven or more Timing chain stretch is a very common problem among VW and Audi 2. Both should be between -6 and 6 AND the two values should not be further apart than 4. View Public Profile. how to check timing chain stretch

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